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The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards tackling topics such as the controversial decision between Gabriel Maestre and Mykal Fox, Manny Pacquiao vs. Yordenis Ugas, Guillermo Rigondeaux vs. John Riel Casimero, and more.
Hi Bread-I’d love for you to do a deep dive on the various “psyches” and mental states/approaches of championship/near championship-level fighters. Apologies if you’ve already gone into this in-depth before. I know you’re a big basketball fan as well – Bill Simmons (and I’m paraphrasing here) made a list of the mental states that basketball teams have when approaching the summit/championship level. They are: 1. The hungry, up and coming team that hasn’t won but is on the precipice 1. He described this as hiking up a mountain, you have all the confidence in the world – but you actually don’t KNOW you can do it until you do it. 2. The returning/defending champions who want to protect their spot on top1. This team KNOWS they can do it which is a great benefit to have – but they may suffer from a lack of passion or focus since they’ve already been at the top. 3. The team who were once champions, still have a good fight left in them, but are now trying to reclaim former glory 1. This team has an “eff you” edge that wants to prove they still belong.
I bring up these various mental states because I’d love for you to breakdown A) Which “team” or boxer equivalent would you rather be? And B) as we approach Pacquiao vs. Spence – is it just me – or does it seem Manny has that “Eff you, I’m still here!”edge to him in this camp? I know it’s just training vids/interviews, but he looks incredible. What do you think about about where Pac and Spence’s mental states are going into this fight? I think Pac chose Spence not necessarily because his team saw something, but because Pacquiao knows how dangerous Spence is – and wanted to give himself the most motivation during training.
Thanks, Peter
Bread’s Response: This may be the best question I’ve ever had. I would rather be #1. The hungry up and comer. Nothing beats that passion. Fighters walk around the gym literally screaming, “And the new!” The passion and will that goes into winning the BIG ONE is why it’s harder to be #2.
80% of teams or athletes can’t get the passion back. It’s why it’s easier to be a 1 hit wonder than it is to be Joe Louis, a consistent 25 title defense ATG. It’s easier to win the title than it is to defend it.
Pac vs Spence is off. But Sunday morning as I was leaving Houston, I told a major player in boxing that I saw something in Pac that had me thinking he was going to be tougher on Errol than expected by most.. I wasn’t picking Pac to win but I felt like he was going to give Errol hell. Errol looked to be already be down in weight and his energy seemed drained in interviews….. Pac doesn’t have to worry about making weight so he’s always fresh and energetic. Floyd and Pac have been killing welterweights for years with this same trick. More calories to BURN.
I think Team Pac chose Spence because they think Spence is easier than Crawford. They feel as though Pac has a big hand/foot speed advantage. I think they saw the Porter fight. And I think they saw Danny Garcia buzz Errol. It doesn’t mean they were right but I truly believe that’s what they think and saw.
Pac is a GUN. Once his team makes a fight, he fights. He’s confident but humble. He’s not a trash talker but he doesn’t care who he fights. His attitude is why he’s so special.
What’s up Breadman ? I would like to have your thoughts on the 2 really good fights happening this Week-end : Casimero vs Rigondeaux, and Ortiz vs Kavaliauskas. I don’t really like the way Casimero could get that big fight and Nonito could not because he was the one asking for VADA testing, but I still be interesting to see Casimero vs Rigondeaux. I have a feeling that Rigondeaux will try to take Casimero’s head off by being more offensive than he use to, so he can secure a rematch with Nonito, but Casimero is Dangerous also. Intriguing one.Ortiz vs Kavaliauskas is also a really good fight ! It might will answer some questions about Ortiz stamina, and capacity of adaptation (I’m not sure my English is correct), because I think Kavaliauskas have the abilities to take him into deep waters. I can see an upset on that one if Ortiz try too much to go for the K.O. even though I like this kid and hope he win that one big. Thank you for your time!
Max from France
Bread’s Response: Guillermo Rigondeaux is the 2nd best PURE BOXER of the last 2 decades behind Floyd Mayweather. Roy Jones is the most athletic fighter I’ve probably seen. But in terms of god given boxing talent. Rigo’s talent was insane. He’s known as boring but he’s one of the biggest punchers in boxing 126lbs and below. If you look at his Olympic performances he doesn’t look human. He looks like a spider in boxing gloves. He has the acrobat type of feet. His reflexes as far as pulling the trigger and evading incoming shots were just sick. Lee Wylie made a video about Rigo called The Way of the Jackal. Rigo was a special, special talent that will not get the props he deserves.
Here is how good he is. Think about the great fighters in history who hovered between 118lbs-122lbs. Close your eyes and think about who you would bet to beat the Rigo of 2011-14. Seriously I’m not talking legacy. I’m talking winning a fight. Do we know for a fact if Eder Jofre, Carlos Zarate, Ruben Olivares, Wilfredo Gomez, Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales or Wilfredo Gomez beats him. I honestly don’t know. Rigo is that good.
It’s hard to call the Casimero fight. I don’t know honestly. Too many factors and out of respect I won’t get into them. But if you’re asking me to make a prediction. I say Rigo gets up from 2 knockdowns and kos Casimero with a machete left hand in his last stand. Sounds like a movie right?
This is a good fight for Ortiz. I think Mean Machine is a quality litmus test. But he has been hot and cold. He was much better vs Crawford than he was vs Ray Robinson. But you have to give Robinson credit. I think MM will fight well vs Ortiz and force Ortiz to settle for a UD, instead of his normal ko victory. MM can box. He can score points. Ortiz is a serious talent but he’s not hard to figure out, he’s hard to overcome. There is a difference. He’s a fast, overwhelming attacker. But he’s not tricky. He’s not a guy who you have to figure out. He brings the noise and the noise is loud but straight forward. A fighter like MM will be able to score points and if he’s durable he can get some work in.
Hello Bread,
Boxing and MMA remain as the only sports that allow subjectivity to determine the outcome. I watched the Gabriel Maestre v Mykal Fox bout and clearly Fox won more rounds . Additionally, he scored a knockdown but was not the A-side so he lost a majority decision. As a boxing fan I see how casual fans might be turned off and lose interest when the winner is not always the winner.
My question is do you think announcing the scores in between rounds would prevent robberies like last weekend ? I remember that there were a few bouts that did this and I believe the crowd and the corner reaction might help curtail bad decisions that hurt the integrity of the sport (not to mention the injustice to the fighter) What are your thoughts?
Also, do you have an opinion on fighters standing between rounds and would you see that as a disadvantage if you were sn opposing trainer?
MM: Mayweather v Tszyu 2) Mayweather v Prince Hamed – I can’t understand why both bouts were never made??
Take care, Aaron from Cleveland
Bread’s Response: The Fox vs Maestre decision may be the worst in boxing history. Between the racist tweets from one of the judges. Maestre being allowed to skin his gloves. Maestre’s association with the WBA. The judge’s association with the WBA. Maestre fighting for the WBA title in the first place. This was not a good look for boxing.
And I hope Myke Fox is treated like the winner and not the loser of that fight. He deserves the pay day he would was supposed to get after a win. The only real way to do the RIGHT THING. Is change the result and give Fox the decision. And suspend all 3 judges indefinitely!
But no I don’t believe that the scores should be announced between rounds. That can cause a boxer to play keep away and take the air out of the fight. I just believe we need a better system of picking judges. You can’t have conflicts of interest involving judging of a fight.
Fighters stand in the gym between rounds in sparring. It’s not a big deal either way to me but I would rather my fighters sit to rest a little more.
Mayweather fought in the same era as Hamed and Tszyu but Hamed never moved up to 130lbs. Hamed was very short and he started out at 118lbs. Mayweather was just too big for him. Hamed never moved past 126lbs. Tszyu and Mayweather could’ve fought. There was a window after Mayweather moved up from 135lbs in 2004. Mayweather only fought once in 2004 vs Demarcus Corley. I believe it was an eliminator for the WBC. Tszyu was the IBF and WBA champion if I’m not mistaken. Mayweather fought another eliminator in 2005 to get a shot at Gatti. Tszyu lost to Ricky Hatton that same summer and never fought again. There was a window from say 03-05 for the Mayweather vs Tszyu fight.
Mayweather would have beaten Hamed easy in my opinion. Hamed would have never touched him. He may have even stopped Hamed. Tszyu is a different fight. Tszyu was an elite boxer and puncher. Tszyu didn’t like to be crowded or ran HOT like Hatton did. But Floyd doesn’t fight like that. Very tough fight for both. Floyd never lost a fight. But Kostya was never outboxed. See his amateur fight vs Vernon Forest. Tszyu had the same amateur pedigree if not better than Floyd’s. He was very experienced and he was a huge puncher. That’s a tough fight to call but I slightly lean Mayweather.
MR Edwards hope all is well!
Paul Williams was ducked coming up and claimed to campaigned in 4 weight classes at the same time if I remember correctly who would you say is the most ducked fighters of the last 30 – 40 years and who campaigned in the most weight classes successfully? I know Canleo moves around well but until he goes after A.B. at 175 I think its more match making even tho he is the goods. Last I was telling everyone all week of the fight my guy charlo was going to make history and we get the draw if we get the rematch Charlo by ko what do u think? Thanks for the bag weekly! Its a Sat morning ritual.
Travis N.C.
Bread’s Response: I think Charlo’s adjustments are easier to make to win but let’s see the form they are in next fight. Things change constantly in boxing.
The most ducked fighters of the last 30-40 years. So 1980. Let’s see…GGG, Terence Crawford and Guillermo Rigondeaux. I would have said Marvin Hagler but he got his title shot in 1980. Fighters weren’t ducked as much years ago because there were less belts to go around and champions fought more often.
For example people say that Aaron Pryor and Mike McCallum were severely ducked. They may not have gotten all of the big fights they wanted but both got title shots rather early in their careers. Pryor got a title shot in his HOMETOWN at 24-0. He was only a pro 4 years. McCallum got a title shot after 3 years as a pro, at 21-0. In this era right here top talents are getting waited out much longer.
Who campaigned in the most weight classes successfully? Manny Pacquiao. He went from Flyweight to Junior Middleweight. No one in history has come close to that.
Hey Mr Edwards,
Great mailbag last week. Jay writing in on Marciano and Liston was stupendous, your response to him out of this world. I think I print and keep that. Personally, I think between Marciano and Liston it comes down to will power. Liston was a broken and discouraged man long before he failed to answer the bell against Ali. It was shocking to see even if Ali dazzled him. Walcott dazzled Marciano too. At times he made Marciano look like a rank amateur. But Marciano was indefatigable. So Liston could drop and hurt Marciano (he was dropped by lesser punchers than Liston) but could he keep him down? And if he couldn’t keep him down, could he keep him away. I don’t think he could. Marciano breaks his will and stops him late.
However, on to the reason I wrote in. I need to correct three statements. One was made by Manny Pacquiao and two by Errol Spence Jr. Pacman said a win over Spence makes him an ATG. That’s wrong. Pacman is far too modest. He’s already an ATG and even if he wasn’t, beating a fighter of Spence ‘s level would not make him one. There’s nothing special about Spence. Spence is not a Sugar Shane Mosley or Tito Trinidad. He is just a tough, durable kid with some talent who’s a good but not standout champion. Spence said beating Pacman will be a passing of the torch. That’s so wrong. Pacman is not a torch-bearer and hasn’t been one for a while. The man is a full-time politician and part-time boxer. That’s why it’s gonna look so bad when, and not if, Pacman gives him a good old-fashioned whipping. Spence also said he’s king of the welterweight division. Are you kidding me? I appreciate a fighter can be king of a division without being undisputed but certainly not Spence.
Right now Canelo Alvarez is king of the super middleweight division. Sure, Caleb Plant holds the IBF belt but who wants to know about Plant? He’s a good kid who’s overcome a lot of adversity in life and punched his ticket to a tantalizingly close Canelo lottery but that’s just as good as it gets for him. For as long as a certain vicious ring killer out of Omaha, Nebraska is stalking the welterweight division Spence is only king of Premier Boxing Champions.
In fact, I have a hunch about the real reason Spence took the Pacman fight. Pacman, though clearly past his peak, still offers the movement, the speed, the mean streak, the angles and unpredictability Spence would encounter in Crawford. So, Spence and the PBC top brass are trying a dry run but they are not going to get it. It’s going to be more like Spence jumping out of the fire into the fire. Pacman ain’t no frying pan. He’s just as bad for Spence as Crawford is. I’ve said here on this forum already that Pacman beats Spence as badly as he beat Margarito and I gave my reasons. That’s bold and no nonsense. I see a number of wishy washy predictions about Pacman not being a walkover, the fight being closer than most people think, Spence wins if…etc etc. I’m unmoved. So, Pacman is going to bury the ghost of Crawford v Spence. It will be a case of what could have been and all the blame must go to Spence. You can’t corner a market like PBC did and turn around and say you are the best when you haven’t faced anyone of substance outside that market.
I haven’t seen Rigo lately but if he’s even 50% of what he used to be he out-slicks Casimero. Rigo’s power is also underrated and Casimero has been stopped by Moruti Mthalane before. Props to Virgil Ortiz for taking the Mean Machine fight. Your pick, Mr Edwards? I think he grinds Mean Machine down for a late stoppage but can he shut up about Crawford already. He should just take a leaf out of Spence’s book and run. No need to derail a promising career at this stage. Finally, if boxing reverts to the original eight divisions is it a good thing or bad thing? Already we’ve had some guys jumping two divisions to take fights at the higher weight with mixed success.
MM: Errol Spence Jr v Thomas Hearns. I feel it’s a two round blow out. Spence is too static and Hearns easily sets him up for the most destructive right hand in all of boxing history.
Keep punching Mr Edwards.
Katlholo – Johannesburg, South Africa.
Bread’s Response: I don’t feel that Hearns would blow Spence out in 2 rounds but I do feel he would defeat Spence. Very few fighters in history from 147-154 could beat Hearns head to head. He just happened to fight in the same era as Ray Leonard.
I would love it if boxing went to the Original 8 divisions but it’s never going to happen. Not worth discussing.
I like Ortiz to win by UD. Why should Ortiz stop talking about Crawford? Isn’t that what we want. A real challenger to fight a great champion…
So you think Rigo clip Casimero, I do too….Pacman and Spence won’t be fighting….
Hey Bread,
I hope all is well with you and yours. I see your daughter is setting track on fire. Great job! I was recently watching some old fights and during the fight, they mentioned that Bob Foster dropped Ali twice in the amateurs. I never heard that story before and it got me to thinking. Why is it that some fighters chins seem to improve when they hit the next level versus those that seem to get exposed for lack of a better word?
We know Ali had an ATG chin, particularly after becoming champion. Then you have someone like Mark Breland who’s arguably the greatest amateur fighter ever but didn’t seem to have the chin nor durability to be an ATG pro. Is it a matter of maturing, mind over matter, or something else. I’m sure there are some other examples but I hope you get my point. Also, I was watching a doc on Matthew Saad Muhammad and man, boxing has far too many sad stories. He seemed like such a solid dude. I also watched one on Jerry Quarry and again…sad stuff. I did discover that he did the best personation of Ali I’ve ever heard. It was uncanny, I think you would enjoy it.
Be well, Jerry L. Christian
Bread’s Response: Quarry’s Ali impersonation was as good as Ali.
Saad Muhammad may be the most beloved fighter in Philly history. Very sad how his life ended.
Ali was a skinny kid in the amateurs. He turned pro at 18 years old. So if he fought Foster he was even younger. Maybe he just wasn’t mature or used to taking punches. In order to be able to take a shot, you have to take them and build up a resistance.
I have theory on tall dominant fighters like Breland. In the gym and as amateurs they rarely get hit. They spar fighters 6 and 7 inches shorter with the same reach deficiencies and they don’t simply don’t get hit enough to build up a resistance to take big shots. Breland was so good at a young age, that he most likely got hit 40% less than most fighters.
I also believe taking a punch comes down to a few other things. Awareness. Getting hit with shots you don’t see, cause the most damage. Some fighters have bad attention spans and they lose track of shots, like Amir Khan.
Spinal and neck strength. The ability to shock absorb the blow.
Coping skills. Accepting that everyone gets hurt or buzzed and being able to think clearly through the FOG.
Last thing is genetics.
You’ve said more than once that Evander Holyfield was one of your guys growing up. I wanted to take a moment to ask you about his WARS with Riddick Bowe.
I think the first fight has a case for Fight of the Decade. For Bowe, how big of a win was that? Does it have a case for Win of the Decade? And what about Holyfield’s win in their rematch? How big was that win?
Of course, I can’t talk about the rematch without mentioning the notorious Fan Man. Where do you think that ranks among boxing’s most bizarre moments? Not that boxing lacks for those, but that was still pretty OUT THERE. Thoughts on all this?
Bread’s Response: I watched Fan Man as it happened and it was beyond weird. It took me a few minutes to realize what happened. It’s probably the most bizarre thing to ever happen in a boxing ring.
Fight of the Decade in the 90s. Bowe vs Holyfield 1 has a case. Robert Quiroga vs Kid Akeem can rival it though. So can Carbajal vs Gonzalez1. But if I’m not mistaken Chavez vs Taylor1 won it. You can’t go wrong with either.
The best win of the decade would have been Whitaker over Chavez. But since that was a draw, it comes down to 5 fights for me. Holyfield over Bowe, Bowe over Holyfield, Jones over Toney, Foreman over Moorer or Holyfield over Tyson . All 5 wins involved legacy defining wins over a defending champions. All were undefeated except Tyson and he had only 1 loss at the time.
Hey Breadman,
I’ve been thinking about historic fights that have taken place and thought, what are the biggest boxing fights of each decade? Not the fights that were the best but the fights that were the biggest, in terms of hype, anticipation, legacy at stake and elite, pound-for-pound fighters going head-to-head.
For example, in the 1980s, I think the top five biggest fights (in no particular order) were: Hearns-Leonard 1, Leonard-Duran 1, Hagler-Hearns, Leonard-Hagler and Sanchez-Gomez. There’s an argument for Leonard-Duran 2, Duran-Hagler, Holmes-Cooney, Spinks-Qawi and Pryor-Arguello 1 as well.
I wanted to get your take on what you think were the top five biggest boxing fights of each decade since the 20th century or least since the 1930s.JamesAtlanta, GA
Bread’s Response: The 1980s was some decade for boxing. I can name 10 more fights that fit the bill. So let’s see I will go back in reverse.
5 Biggest Fights on the 2010-19.
Mayweather vs Pac.
GGG vs Canelo
Mayweather vs Canelo
Ward vs Kovalev
Rigo vs Donaire
2000-09.
Mayweather vs Corrales
Pac vs Cotto
Barrera vs Hamed
Hopkins vs Tito
Oscar vs Shane1
1990-99
Holyfield vs Bowe1
Holyfield vs Tyson1
Holyfield vs Lewis1
Oscar vs Tito
Jones vs Toney
1980-89
Duran vs Leonard1
Leonard vs Hearns
1Hagler vs Hearns
Leonard vs Hagler was for Fighter of the Decade
Tyson vs Spinks
1970-79
Ali vs Frazier1
Ali vs Foreman
Duran vs DeJesus3
Monzon vs Napoles
Leonard vs Benitez
1960-69
Jofre vs Harada
Ali vs Liston
Benvenuti vs Griffin1
Foster vs Tiger
Ortiz vs Brown
1950-59
Marciano vs Moore
Robinson vs Lamotta6
Robinson vs Maxim
Patterson vs Moore
Pep vs Saddler4
1940-49
Robinson vs Gavilan2
Louis vs Conn1
Williams vs Jack
Pep vs Saddler2
Charles vs Moore3
1930-39
Armstrong vs Ross
Armstrong vs Ambers
Armstrong vs Ceferino Garcia2
Louis vs Schmeling2
Ross vs Canzoneri1
How do you like my list? Freestyled off the top of the dome.
I hope people aren’t sleeping on Ugas. He wants it bad and he has a real chance to cluster some clout with a Pacquiao win. I could see a decision win upset, even though Pac has aged well as a boxer and he has real iq and acumen, I wonder how much the shake up affects the mental “gear” he is in. Maybe he’s all good. He’s a consumate pro, but Ugas I bet is hungry. Thoughts on this?
Also, do you feel ODLH vs Tito would have looked any different at MW as opposed to how it played out at WW? And how does Bhop do against Canelo at 160? Jack Demspey vs Deontay Wilder?
Thanks bud.
Jay
Bread’s Response: I think the shake up is bigger for Ugas style wise than it is for Pac. Pac is used to boxing right handed fighters. Ugas was not training for a southpaw and we know, no one is like Pac. But as far as motivation I love this fight for Ugas. He’s going to be on Cloud 9. He has a real shot to win. If Manny slides down 5% and Ugas slides up 5%, Ugas will win a decision. Ugas is tricky, he’s physically strong and he’s a lot bigger. Ugas performed at least equal to Errol Spence vs Shawn Porter.
I thought Oscar beat Tito. But Tito ascended after the fight, that’s why official decisions count. Tito was in better form at 160 than Oscar. So I would’ve favored Tito.
I would favor Bhop to beat Canelo by competitive decision. The Bhop that fought Tito is as good as any middleweight ever.
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