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The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards tackling topics such as Canelo’s recent knockout of Caleb Plant, future options for Canelo, thoughts on Shakur Stevenson, De La Hoya vs. Trinidad, and more.
Bread,
I didn’t agree with your Plant by decision prediction but as the fight was playing out I started to see what you saw. At the end of the day Canelo did what he does. I have to say I’m glad you weren’t right. What did you think of the of the twitter scorecards? Some had Plant winning. I didn’t see that. I did think he won a few rounds though. Was it a case of great fighter vs good fighter? Or the levels of competition too much for Plant to overcome?
Bread’s Response: I didn’t look at the twitter scorecards. I never do. But if they had Plant winning it’s because they couldn’t admit to being wrong. I picked Plant and I openly admit he wasn’t winning at the time of the stoppage. I was asked by a member of Team Plant who was winning at the end of the 8th. My honest opinion was 5-3 for Canelo. At the time of the stoppage a reasonable scorecard would have been 6-4 Canelo to 7-3 Canelo. Plant was competitive and trying his best but he wasn’t winning. His best case max was 4 rounds. But I also don’t think he was being swept and shut out.
You know I picked Plant on a style hunch and him making the fight boring for Canelo’s fans. Their fight was actually a GOOD fight. The type of fight that I didn’t think Caleb could win. Canelo has a vicious 2 fisted attack to the head and body. He also has great come forward defense and a big time chin. Caleb is a stick and move kid with fast hands and a good sense of distance. It’s tough for him to beat Canelo in that type of fight. At the top level when Paulie Malignaggi won fights, they weren’t exciting. Juan Diaz and Zab Judah are his best wins. But violent fights with hard exchanges showed his heart but it didn’t allow him to win. I think Plant is a bigger more athletic version of Paulie who could box his butt off but he didn’t have the power or 2 fisted attack to be exciting vs certain opponents.
Paulie used to get stuck in that same stance often. See Paulie vs Danny Garcia. Garcia kept landing the same right hand body shot that Canelo landed. Being damaged on that side takes away Paulie’s and Caleb’s best hand. Their lead jab hand. And in Caleb’s case his hardest punch, his left hook. Plant got to a point where he was stuck in a shoulder roll stance. Which took away his hardest punch a left hook. And it gave up his right flank. Canelo landed right hand body shots to the kidney, flank and short rib all night. He kept Plant on that side. I don’t know if it was an experience thing or a Canelo being a great thing and trapping him over there. But getting hit with that shot was no good. It’s debilitating and Plant kept giving it up. It zapped him.
Canelo is one of the best punchers in boxing. Watch his heavy bag or water bag routine. Watch him on that donut circle shield. He punches through the target and it really snaps. Unless you’re James Toney, you don’t want to CATCH punches from Canelo. He’s going to damage you. I think it’s better to make him miss the shots completely. Caleb got settled in the shoulder roll stance and he kept catching a left hook to the chest or head and that right hand to the flank. His body was absorbing the shots. That wears you out.
But in Caleb’s defense it’s easy to say just keep the fight in the center of the ring. In order to do that, you have to be a really hard puncher or have strong legs to hold your ground. Canelo is a freaking tank. And he’s not going to just stop coming because you pose to hold your ground. So Plant gave up and ground and got trapped up against the ropes and absorbed body shots and it eventually wore him down. Canelo is not only a great fighter he’s an ATG fighter. I don’t argue with anyone who has him #1 P4P. He’s 1 of the 4 fighters in boxing in my opinion who separates themselves from all others. But he’s also a top 5 ever Super Middleweight. I don’t know if he beats everyone head to head. But after Jones, Calzaghe, Ward and Toney I think Canelo fits in.
Froch, Kessler, Benn and Eubank all have cases but at no time in their careers, were they ever regarded as highly as Canelo is now. Sometimes nostalgia causes altered memories. None of the last 4 were considered the best fighter in the world at any time. And none were operating at the level Canelo is on now. Now that doesn’t mean Froch or Kessler couldn’t outbox him. Or Benn or Eubank couldn’t out fight him. But my eyes tell me he should be above them.
As for Plant he did what he did. And that was his best. He has nothing to hold his head down about. The heck with these critics and fans. He gave it all he had. When you give all you have, that’s it. He can come back from this. I would suggest getting right back in the ring. There is no reason to take off a year because you got stopped. Heal your body and go get that taste out of your mouth. It’s boxing. No need to sit and dwell on the loss. After a fight, we are all right in our reasons. So of course Canelo and Plant were matched differently and it favors Canelo. Of course Canelo has a busier and harder schedule, so that favors Canelo. But maybe if Plant would have won, critics will say Canelo was fatigued from fighting so often. Who knows?
I believe in activity against solid opposition. But fighters are matched how they are matched. I know people in boxing who don’t like to take chances because if the fighter gets knocked off, they lose the big payday. Some don’t think it’s worth it. Some think you match a guy tough and if he’s the goods he will rise through it. It depends on who’s pulling the strings. I’ve seen both theories work but the thing is, you don’t know until you know.
Greetings Breadman!
As always, I hope you and your family are staying healthy. After watching Canelo-Plant fight many of the questions I had, got answered. Let’s give Plant his props for attempting to win the fight, even though, he only won 2-3 rounds. It was nice to see the closure Plant had with Canelo when they spoke about the respect that both wanted and received. Plant used his jab the whole time, but he didn’t land a strong punch to get Canelo’s respect, Plant knew by round 7 he was in trouble. At the end of the day, you have two individuals who are risking their life to put on a show and make history. With all due respect to Chavez Sr and other great Mexican legends like Salvador Sanchez, who I watched 10-15 times growing up. Canelo is the best Mexican fighter ever. The level of competition on his resume and to complete his goal of unification at 168 in 11 months is remarkable!
In addition, I’m glad Canelo won every fight in 168lbs in TKO Stoppage except the Callum Smith fight in which he won every round. Billy Joe Saunders wanted a bigger ring size last second before the fight occurred, no problem, Canelo granted his wish like a genie. Besides the Canelo-GGG I fight where I thought Canelo lost 7-5 because GGG was more aggressive, that was the only time Canelo benefit from a win by the judges. Your thoughts? No matter what Canelo does he can’t win with a certain fan base and I know neither can you when you support or critique him. If Canelo TKO’s a fighter, that means the fighter wasn’t that good even though the fighters were undefeated. If Canelo wins by the scorecards then it should have been by 3-4 points and not 6-7 points. I understand every A side fighter gets the benefit of the scorecards and some past scorecards always make you wonder at times.
I wanted to know your thoughts on the fight and who Canelo will fight next? I know you’re a fan of Plant and where he goes from here? Personally, I think Canelo should fight GGG next May 2022 because it will be for the unification for 160 & 168 belts. That fight will still be a close fight because of their boxing styles. If Canelo didn’t win a close decision in the second fight no one would be talking about GGG’s age.
As always, thank you so much for your knowledge and mailbags!
Kind regards, Eman
Bread’s Response: I can see by your email, you’re an old school Laker’s fan. That 1980 team, beat the Sixers. That was our title. We got them back in 1983 though. Maybe the best team ever. What a time!
Anyways…I think Canelo will fight Jermall Charlo next. From everything I know about boxing it will be Charlo or Benavidez but I lean towards Charlo. Charlo is the WBC middleweight champion. He’s black and from Texas. Texas has a large Mexican community and Charlo represents the Hip hop culture. Mexican vs Black has sold really well on PPV. Charlo is 31 years old and he’s never crossed over. This is the fight to cross him over. You have to remember this is a business. Benavidez is younger so he has more time to make it bigger. I say Charlo has the edge in getting the next call. I also believe this is a killer fight. Canelo has a slight edge but Charlo is a mean MOFO. He’s going to fight! He’s going to try to knock Canelo out. That’s his mentality. He also has shown a chin and physical toughness. I see an extremely violent fight. I’m curious to see if Charlo can raise his game.
I do think Canelo has gotten the benefit of doubt on every close scorecard of his career. But that doesn’t mean he’s not great. He’s just that type of fighter. But what’s weird is I don’t think he ever got a win, where he didn’t have a case for winning. The Lara fight was close. The GGG fights were close. I thought GGG won the 1st fight, but it was close. The Mayweather draw card was horrible, but Floyd still won. The Cotto fight was closer than the scorecards read. Canelo throws these hard, flashy punches, he’s the A side and the judges and powers to be love him. It’s not his fault. He is what he is. Just like Oscar was. Just like Floyd was. Just like Manny was.
I disagree about the GGG trilogy. I love GGG. I think he’s was screwed over historically by being frozen out until after Kell Brook won 2 rounds against him. But it is what it is. At this point GGG will be 40 next year. 40 year old, clean fighters, who aren’t supreme athletes or heavyweights don’t usually beat fighters of Canelo’s status. It’s so rare I can only think of a few cases off the top of my head and most involve Bernard Hopkins or Archie Moore. Canelo has ascended since they fought. GGG has descended. I think Canelo would hurt GGG if they fought next. GGG has an all time chin. He has all time toughness. He has an all time heart. His push and stand in their rematch was epic. I thought Canelo was about run away on the scorecards and GGG started marching like a soldier. My goodness it was thrilling. But he hasn’t looked the same since. I think people are not factoring in that was 3+ years ago and GGG is now almost 40. Since then Canelo has went on a tear. And those are the exact reasons why I think GGG gets really hurt in this fight. He’s not going to stop trying.
It may be a style thing like Pac vs Marquez. Where Marquez is GGG and he just knows how to fight Canelo like Pac knew how to fight Marquez. But I suspect GGG has slipped too much. Let’s see his next fight. I want to give him a fair assessment. But from what I’ve seen since the Canelo fight, I think he lost a step. I also believe that at 168lbs, Canelo is as strong as an ox and he would back GGG up. My hunch is Canelo would stop GGG if they fought again and it would look like Qawi vs Saad Muhammad. I hope I’m wrong because I don’t like to see older greats get stopped but this is boxing. It’s how it usually ends.
So you think Canelo is the greatest Mexican fighter ever. I will tell you what, he’s really building a case. I would have to take an in depth look at the numbers etc. Then watch film. Canelo has some great wins but his wins vs regular title holders etc I don’t count as wins vs ex champions. Like for example Rocky Fielding. So his modern era numbers may be more gaudy.
Then I want to look at him side by side on who’s actually the best. Chavez, Sanchez, Lopez, Marquez, Barrera and Morales stand out to me. From my memory, I thought the Barrera that fought Hamed was as good as Canelo is now. I thought the Chavez that fought Rosario was the best I ever saw from Mexico. I thought the Sanchez that beat Gomez was equal. I believe Canelo is in their league but I’m not 100% sure he’s better. Lopez may be the best but we will never know because of the weight. It’s Interesting….. At one point Canelo couldn’t be mentioned with them. But now at 31, 4 division titles and one undisputed he’s well in the category. I say he’s top 5 and rising.
Hi Bread,
There is a clip doing the rounds of Caleb Plant talking to Canelo in about the 9th round of their fight. In the clip, Plant makes a bit of small talk about the fight and at a point says to Canelo “I respect your skills.” Biggest fight of your career (which I had a lot closer up to that point than the judges) and you find the time to compliment your opponent. Canelo’s recent opponents (including Kovalev, Smith and Yildrim) just seem to absolutely gush at Canelo pre, during and post fight. They were all constantly wanting to touch gloves with him and just seemed star-struck to be sharing a ring. I appreciate that the guy gives them career high pay-days, and that he is a great walk-down counterpuncher, but what is actually going on with these guys and their mentality that they seem to not have the ‘dog’ in them when fighting him? Contrast Kovalev’s surly aggressive attitude against the likes of Ward or Pascal with the meek pussy-cat he became against Canelo? Or Smith vs Groves when compared to his surrender against Canelo. What gives?
V Soga
Bread’s Response: I think Kovalev got old and when you get old you lose aggressiveness. You lose vigor.
I definitely believe in being mean and defiant in the ring. Most of the greats have that in ring quality. Canelo has it. He’s a mean Sun of a Gun. Once Pant complimented him, Canelo turned it up. It’s no coincidence how that works. I won’t criticize Plant because I haven’t heard his reasons yet. Maybe he was trying to disarm Canelo. I have no idea. I don’t think Plant lacks heart because when he was knocked down and asked did he want to continue, he said yes clearly. He wanted to go on.
So I just don’t know why THAT conversation happened in the 9th round. What I have found is people from different places do things differently. In Philly in the gyms that wouldn’t fly. But maybe how Plant came up and his upbringing in the boxing gyms, that’s the norm. I don’t know. It’s a little bizarre to hear something like that during a fight but I think we should give Caleb a chance to defend himself. It was a tough fight on him mentally and people holding every single thing you do and say under the microscope is tough. Caleb may not even know why or remember saying that to Canelo. Seriously that fight was stressful on him and he was stopped. There is a lot that goes on in high stress moments. I personally know people who have lost TIME in high stress moments.
But I will say that a fighter like Canelo eats that stuff up. He’s a cold killer. I thought Canelo was getting a little tired of moving after Plant and a faster start than normal and those comments revitalized him. Let’s see Plant’s explanation before we condemn him.
Hey Bread,
Can you name some of the most beautiful boxers to watch from recent history and current times? I don’t mean handsome of course, I mean; fluidity, stature, form, technique, looking comfortable / loose and also creativity. I always thought Linares is fantastic to watch, same with Chocolatito the way he can flow between offence and defence rapidly and smoothly. Currently Canelo seems like one of these guys; has a showman-like posture and puts together flashy combinations and counters. He really looks like he’s enjoying himself in there and exudes crazy confidence in the way he moves.
Cheers! Joe
Bread’s Response: Choc and Linares both show up well on film study. But watch Ricardo Lopez. Literally you can pick any fight. He’s the most consistently great fighter I have ever studied on film. He literally never has a bad night. Perfect blend of technical ability, power and precision. Check him out.
Hey Bread,
I believe Shakur Stevenson is the most likely boxer of this generation to crack the top 10 p4p of all time. Hear me out. To be a top all time great you need not only the talent and discipline, you also need plenty of HOF level fighters around your weight class to create match-ups with. I think Shakur is placed better than any other fighter in this regard.
At his weight, Shakur could potentially make fights with Ryan G, Valdez, Teofimo, Navarette, Loma, Colbert, Tank, Russel Jr, Haney. He’s so well positioned at his weight he could end up fighting guys as light as Fulton and Figueroa, or guys as big as Josh Taylor. That is at least 10 fighters all with HOF potential that Shakur could make fights with. He is also skilled enough that he would be a favourite, or a VERY competitive underdog against each one. While you could argue the opportunity is also there for the other fighters too, I think Shakur is better placed than them. Teo and Haney for example are bursting at the seams at 135. They will soon need to move up and some of these fights will not be available to them. Loma and Taylor are older, and won’t have as much time to make the fights. Tank and Ryan seem to lack the discipline that Shakur has in and out of the ring.
IF (of course that is a gigantic IF) Shakur could make say, seven or eight of these fights and win them, while defending titles against a swarth of other B level contenders, I think his resume would leapfrog Manny and Floyd into the top 10 p4p of all time.
Do you agree, or is there someone else in this generation you see better placed to pull it off?
Best, Liam
Bread’s Response: I love Stevenson as a fighter. But man there is so much that can happen. It will be hard for any fighter to pass Floyd or Manny from this era. They don’t fight enough. I will say that Stevenson starting out smaller than Lopez, Davis, Garcia and Haney does help. He won titles at 126 and 130 thus far. But let’s see what he does at 130. Let’s see if he can clean out 130 or at least get the Valdez fight. I would like to see Stevenson unify before moving up to 135lbs. He has some food on the table at 130.
As for who can be the ATG from this era. I just don’t know. I felt like Teofimo Lopez could be it but the business side has slowed him down. I still can’t believe he hasn’t fought once since he beat Loma. How about Monster Inoue? If he gets another big win at 118 and moves up to 122lbs and unifies then WOW! I mean he’s only 28. That would be huge historically for him. Especially if he stays undefeated. I actually think he’s the closest out of the under 30 guys. He’s already a HOF and ATG smaller weight fighter in my opinion. But a few more big wins would really put him in a special place.
6) I got my new issue of Ring magazine, dedicated to the great Felix Trinidad. What does it say that I made a beeline for the article covering his fight against Oscar De La Hoya.The fight between De La Hoya and Trinidad is a fascinating one to me. In some ways, I think their match is the boxing equivalent of the college showdown between Larry Bird and Magic Johnson… an important place in history, albeit the event itself was a bit of a dud. Too much of a stretch?
Anyway, I was curious what your thoughts on that match were… do you believe Oscar got robbed? I believe you’ve said you felt that before, but I wanted to double check. As for the fight itself, do you believe it was the big disappointment people describe it as? I feel like when you call it “The Fight of the Millennium”, anything short of the Thrilla in Manila or Gatti-Ward I or Corrales-Castillo I would be incredibly disappointing…Greg K.
Bread’s Response: Tito was my guy and still is. He’s one of my favorites to study and watch. Rooting for him he always gives you your satisfaction. You don’t feel like Tito didn’t TRY to do certain things. I never left a Tito fight feeling cheated like he could’ve tried harder.
That being said Oscar won that fight. There are so many myths that Oscar ran the last 4 rounds, blah, blah, blah. Oscar moved the last 3 rounds, not the last 4. Oscar won the 9th round. Watch the fight closely. That sealed the fight. Oscar won either 7 or 8 out of the first 9 rounds. That’s the fight. So what he lost the last 3 rounds. The first round was close and then Oscar went on a roll. He ran 6 or 7 rounds in a row. As much as I love Tito, there is no way he won that fight. His best case is a draw and that’s pushing it and bending over backwards to give him rounds.
Something has always stunk about that fight in my opinion. Especially when a judge gave Oscar the last round, just to make it closer when he clearly lost the round. The judge didn’t want Tito to be up by too many points on his scorecard. I’m typing as I’m thinking and from what I remember there is no way Tito won more than 5 rounds.
I actually liked the fight. I didn’t think it was a great fight, but it was an enjoyable one. Two highly skilled fighters in their primes trying hard to win. Every fight won’t be Gatti vs Ward. I have no issue with that fight. I’ve seen some boring fights where fighters don’t take chances, I didn’t see it in this fight. What I saw was Oscar fighting a smart fight but he was mindful of Tito’s power. I saw Tito pressing and trying to get going but not being able to be violent do damage but it wasn’t a lack of effort. It was Oscar’s footwork. I liked that fight, just like I liked Rigo vs Nonito. I like high stakes fights with great fighters. It doesn’t have to be a great fight, as long as they display skill and effort.
Ok Bread God Bless, So watching the Canelo-Plant fight at became apparent Caleno wanted to the left hook and right hand to the body and head, but what frustrates me about Canelo is he has a masterful jab and he rarely uses it. So with that being said, who are some other fighters who had great tools, but rarely used it? For example Floyd had a beautiful right hook and uppercut, but you didn’t get to see it much.
Bread’s Response: Canelo has one of the 10 best jabs in all of boxing. People are criticizing his lack of jab vs Plant. He didn’t need it that’s why he didn’t use it. Great fighters with high IQ sense certain things. Canelo was able to walk towards Plant and break the distance without a jab. He didn’t want a jabbing contest with a left hand dominant Plant who is taller and longer. Plant kept giving up that right hand to his flank so that’s what Canelo took.
I would rather land my hardest right hand to the kidneys than a jab to the face any day of the week. Canelo took the more debilitating shot. I think Lennox Lewis had a tremendous left hook but he rarely threw it. When he did he scored kos. Watch his ko of Frans Botha.
Sup Bread,
Hope you are having a great day. I said it a few mailbags back that people still judge Canelo with that Mayweather Lara yardstick. He has progressed a lot since then and I will go to the extent of saying that these days he prefers outfighters as he does not have to worry about taking much damage. It helps him in staying busy. No way he can fight 4 times in 11 months if one of those fights was like the war he had with GGG.Is there any fighter you would consider favorite over Canelo from LHW to middleweight? How do you think would be the odds for -1. Canelo vs Beterbiev, 2. Canelo vs Bivol at 175 and 168, 3. Canelo vs Benavidez, 4. Canelo vs Charlo, 5. Canelo vs Andrade, 6. Canelo vs GGG
Regards, Saurabh
Bread’s Response: I think Canelo would be the favorite vs everyone you named except Beterbiev which would be even money on both sides. But I also think Canelo should start making these guys fight each other because if he fights them all without them fighting each other, he won’t win all of the fights. Plus it would set up Super Fights against him and Super Fights are great for boxing.
1. Canelo vs Beterbiev-Even money -105 on both sides
2. Canelo vs Bivol- Canelo -200 Bivol+150
3. Canelo vs Benvidez- Canelo -300 Benavidez +250
4. Canelo vs Charlo -Canelo -500 Charlo +400
5. Canelo vs Andrade –Canelo -400 Andrade+350
6. Canelo vs GGG – Canelo -300 GGG+300
I think Charlo and Andrade are pretty much even as fighters but Andrade is a southpaw and he moves so I believe the odds would be closer for Andrade.
Bivol can move and he has pedigree. He would give Canelo fits. But I think Bivol may not be as physically tough as far as taking punishment. Just a hunch.
Benavidez is a big, strong, fast, crazy kid. But he may not know enough at this moment. But he will test Canelo’s stamina.
GGG is almost 40 and the fight would be at 168lbs….
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